Author Topic: Liens  (Read 3200 times)

dmaney

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Liens
« on: March 10, 2013, 09:31:28 PM »
I'm working with a chiropractor that was putting liens, or what she believe were liens, on settlements for some of her PI and WC cases.

These liens are essentially just pieces of paper that stated a patient owed her money for certain DOS that she sent over to the patient's attorney.  To my knowledge, the office never received any paperwork back on the liens, such as they were filed with the state or notarized or even acknowledged.

I work in Illinois, and it is my understanding that IL uses what is called a universal lien that needs to be filed with the state in order to make it valid.   She has A LOT of outstanding A/R due to these cases, so I advised her to discuss the matter with her attorney.

Can anybody give me some background on these liens? I don't think that what the chiropractor was doing is in any way legally binding.  We never used liens in my old practice...

Many thanks.

PMRNC

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Re: Liens
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2013, 09:44:51 PM »
Whether they are legally binding depends on many factors.. more importantly I'd have to know what she spent or what it's costing for these liens.. most often they are merely a waste of time. 
Linda Walker
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dmaney

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Re: Liens
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 09:03:07 PM »
The liens went from a couple of hundred to several thousand dollars.

She never paid anything, just sent this piece of paper over to the patient's attorney. 

I don't think they're worth the paper they are written on. 

PMRNC

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Re: Liens
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2013, 12:21:42 PM »
Quote
The liens went from a couple of hundred to several thousand dollars.

She never paid anything, just sent this piece of paper over to the patient's attorney.

I don't think they're worth the paper they are written on. 

Your probably right and the patient's attorney will most likely squash it. It's even a LONG process for the IRS to produce a lien, they cannot be arbitrarily put on.. What access did the provider have to any of the patient's assets to even get a lien?


For some wc / personal injury cases we request an LOP (Letter of protection) from the patients attorney, this ensures us payment when the attorney gets paid  :P ;D ;)  For just plain ol patient balances we evaluate amounts on a 90 day basis and measure cost effectiveness of taking it to collections or even small claims. We review those on a case by case basis. There have been cases where the amount was too large for small claims to which I will offer my clients some alternatives.
Linda Walker
Practice Managers Resource & Networking Community
One Stop Resources, Education and Networking for Medical Billers
www.billerswebsite.com

dmaney

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Re: Liens
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2013, 12:46:06 PM »
Please tell me more about letters of protection.  Who drafts those?  What is the process?

Medical Billing Forum

Re: Liens
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2013, 12:46:06 PM »

PMRNC

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Re: Liens
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2013, 01:56:55 PM »
A letter of protection is basically a promise by the attorney for the patient that they will pay all charges upon settlement. Whenever the patient has an open case and an attorney on record, they are going for a settlement. The Letter of protection protects the provider and ensures when the attorney collects, the provider is paid their due payment.  It does NOT speed process up, as some cases have taken us 2 years to collect but they do ensure payment upon settlement.

The process is quite simple, we just simply send a letter (certified) to the patients attorney with a cc to the patient requesting a "Letter of protection"  If the attorney sends one it might look like this :

Dear Dr  SMITH

We would like to verify that we have taken on one of your recent patients personal injury claims. Thomas Jones first retained our services in conjunction with a MVA on 5/1/2010, seeking compensation for the other driver’s negligence. We have therefore taken on said case, and are confident we will get a cash settlement very soon.

You can be assured that when we do receive the cash settlement, any outstanding debts Mr. Jones has with you, specifically Account # 00000, will be paid in full.

We thank you for your cooperation!

 Ambulance chasers LLC  (LOL)

We make sure when we request this LOP we use a patient account number, request the case number, adjusters information (certain wc cases) etc. This LOP is then put in the patients file and the file in the PM system is flagged.


I'm still curious as to HOW your provider got a hold of certain accounts to put a lien on a patient.. ??? ???
Linda Walker
Practice Managers Resource & Networking Community
One Stop Resources, Education and Networking for Medical Billers
www.billerswebsite.com

DMK

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Re: Liens
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 02:42:31 PM »
Regarding W/C liens (and I'm only basing this on California experience) A lien gets filed with the Worker's Comp Appeals Board for unpaid claims.  They are more and more common since the W/C laws changed. 

Re-reading your post, the chiro filed a lien with the attorney? on a W/C case?  That's unusual.  Usually the patient doesn't get an attorney until the case gets sticky, and by then the chiro would have already filed a lien at the Appeals Board so that the case couldn't get closed without all the bills being paid...

That being said, chiros in California learned the hard way how fast the laws changed.  If treatment wasn't authorized, they weren't going to get paid, period.  Attorney or not.

Also, in California, if you have a denial from the W/C insurance company, you can bill the patient's health insurance or the patient directly. 

Medical Billing Forum

Re: Liens
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 02:42:31 PM »